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“Balancing resources, scope, and stakeholder expectations while staying aligned with business needs. It’s a constant juggling act.”
Have you done this before?
Yes, I have! I’ve worked at several other companies, including once through Spargle. During my freelance career, I worked at Bidfood, focusing on the primary objective of reducing call volumes.I developed a self-service portal for customers, enabling them to track orders, view invoices, and update their personal details. In addition, we introduced a chat feature, enabling customers to connect with any of the 135 service desk employees. This innovation was a game-changer, as it allowed agents to manage up to three conversations simultaneously, compared to handling just one call at a time. It was an incredibly rewarding project to implement.
After that, I joined SDU, a legal content company, working on a SaaS platform for financial & tax advisors. It might sound dry, but it was fascinating. The industry is still transitioning to digital, and there’s a lot happening, especially with AI. SDU’s main product is an extensive legal and financial content database, constantly updated to reflect new laws and regulations. AI opens up so many opportunities for innovation in this space.
After that, I joined KPN as the Product Owner of kpn.com. Of course, I’ve worked on more projects at Dept, but we can dive into those later. I enjoy working on different projects and challenges to keep myself motivated.
Why is that?
I think it stems from my curiosity and desire to learn. Exploring new industries is exciting because, ultimately, they all aim for the same thing: delivering a great user experience.
Coming in with a fresh perspective can be incredibly valuable. Without too much prior knowledge, you can bring a new vision to a product – something that might not occur to someone deeply entrenched in the field. This is one of the benefits of moving between different industries: it adds a new layer to the development process.
What are your challenges in your role?
The biggest challenge is convincing stakeholders to think from the user’s perspective. Often, stakeholders have strong opinions about how things should work, but those opinions don’t always align with what users actually need.
This is a common challenge for every product owner: balancing resources, scope, and stakeholder expectations while staying aligned with business needs. It’s a constant juggling act.
“During COVID, we created a 3D virtual world where visitors could experience Rotterdam digitally. It was an intense, high-pressure project with teams working across time zones, but it was a career highlight. After that, I thought, “If I can do this at Dept, I can do it for myself,” and I started freelancing.”
How do you go about that? I hear communication is often named as a solution, but do you have a specific way?
I always rely on data and the voice of the customer, whether through interviews, user research, or A/B testing. Combining data with customer feedback makes it easier to convince stakeholders about the right course of action. Stakeholders often rely on gut feelings, but showing them factual evidence can help overcome that.
You said you’ve done a lot of work already in this field, but how did you get here? What is the connection to your studies?
I actually studied hotel management, and it shaped my career in unexpected ways. My company name, Digital Hospitality, reflects my core belief that digital experiences should feel as welcoming and seamless as walking into a five-star hotel.
I never imagined I’d end up as a product owner at KPN. Before the hotel school, I worked in hospitality, including several years at a Michelin-starred restaurant – I’m passionate about food and wine. During my studies I interned at a major festival organization, after which I worked for a broker arranging event venues worldwide.
At one point, I thought, “This process could be digitized.” Instead of becoming an account manager, I was assigned as a product owner to develop a platform where clients could easily request quotes and compare them in one place. I loved it.
From there, I joined Dept Agency, one of the largest digital agencies in the Netherlands, working on platforms for clients like Bol, Friesland Campina, Shell, and Vitesse Football Club. One of the highlights was the Vitesse supporters’ app that replaced physical season cards, saving resources and costs.
My biggest project there was the Eurovision Song Contest in Rotterdam. During COVID, we created a 3D virtual world where visitors could experience Rotterdam digitally. It was an intense, high-pressure project with teams working across time zones, but it was a career highlight. After that, I thought, “If I can do this at Dept, I can do it for myself,” and I started freelancing.
How did your service industry background influence your career?
It’s really a mindset. Think about it: if you’re trying to order something or resolve an issue – like a Wi-Fi problem – you want that journey to be as smooth as possible. It’s similar to being in a restaurant where no one assists you for ten minutes; how does that feel? You can mirror this concept in digital journeys. If a problem isn’t solved immediately, you either want a clear alternative or reassurance that you’ll be helped.
There’s always a comparison to make. When you order a pizza and you want the red wine, you can simply order that. But I think digital hospitality is also about getting the right wine for the right dish. Personalised journeys which are based on your specific needs.
On many websites, you often see irrelevant sale buttons for products you’ve already purchased or don’t want. A major trend across industries now is personalization – creating tailored flows and experiences. This is comparable to a service-driven mindset, where platforms are less about pushing their agenda and more about accommodating user desires.
“In the early days, tech was all about innovation […]. Jobs focused on creating the best user experience. For Apple, software comes first, and the hardware follows. That’s the philosophy I apply to building digital platforms: the experience always comes first.”
What inspires you to do the work you do?
It might sound cliché, but Steve Jobs remains a huge inspiration for me. His approach to simplicity in design is remarkable. Complex journeys or products can still feel effortless – like the iPhone. I always remember when someone questioned him about removing the keyboard, and he confidently said, “We don’t need it.” They charged more than competitors but offered something far better.
This inspires me to create simple, efficient, and aesthetically pleasing user journeys. I never settle when it comes to design. In the early days, tech was all about innovation – making phones smaller or adding keyboards. Jobs focused instead on creating the best user experience. For Apple, software comes first, and the hardware follows. That’s the philosophy I apply to building digital platforms: the experience always comes first.
Do you have a life motto or a favourite quote?
I’m an energetic person and I think there is one motto or philosophy that I really like, and that’s hurry, slowly. ‘Hurry’ symbolises the drive to move forward, achieve goals and act quickly, and ‘slowly’ represents governance, focus and awareness, enabling you to act with care and intention. The concept invites you to be efficient without becoming stressed or impulsive. It suggests that even in a busy situation, you should act consciously and authentically to achieve the best result. I think that that’s reflected in my work as well. It’ll save you time in the end.
Do you have a favourite documentary podcast or book?
I’m a big cooking fan. So for me the Toscanini Cookbook. But I don’t read much really. For documentaries on the other hand, I would recommend SOMM. It follows attendees that are doing a masters of sommelier in the US and only 170 successful candidates were there in 40 years. Wine is one of my biggest passions. It’s just insane how those people can blind taste wine and exactly say, okay, there’s this grape, this region, this sub region, and this village from this year. It’s insane. So if you’re talking about mastering your knowledge in your craft, I think that’s a really nice one.
Wow, talk about ‘hurry slowly’.
Yes, it does tie into “hurry slowly.” These candidates dedicate a year of their lives to full-time tasting and studying. During the final exam, they blind-taste eight wines, but they don’t tell you how many you guessed correctly: you just hear ‘you failed’ or ‘you passed’.
For podcasts, my favorite is How I Built This by Guy Raz. The episode with Joe Gebbia, the co-founder of Airbnb, is particularly inspiring. Airbnb began as “Air Bed and Breakfast,” renting out air mattresses in people’s homes. They struggled to get funding, maxed out credit cards, and faced constant rejection from investors who thought the idea was ridiculous. ‘People don’t want to sleep in your house,’ they said. I will never forget this episode because Joe recounts that at a certain moment there were elections in the US, and they created breakfast cereals with the head of a specific candidate on the box. When they presented this to investors, their resourcefulness impressed them enough to secure funding. It kickstarted everything, which I found really interesting. Now Airbnb is worth billions.
Airbnb is also a great example of digital hospitality. It revolutionized travel by making it personal and affordable, offering unique experiences instead of a basic hotel. That concept really resonates with me.
